Episode 33
The Trust Seesaw: Understand Why Buyers Feel Distrust By Default & How To Overcome It
Most B2B leaders know trust is essential—but few can clearly define it, operationalize it, or measure it.
In this episode, Hannah Eisenberg breaks down the Trust Seesaw, a core concept from her book Lead with Trust and the foundation of the TrustLeader Framework, to show why buyers hesitate and how companies can systematically overcome distrust and build deep, lasting trust.
You’ll learn the three deficits that create distrust with your buyers, how to eliminate them through intentional processes, and what it takes to rise beyond customer expectations into true Trust Advantage.
If you’ve ever wondered why deals stall, why customers default to “safe” options, or how to become the vendor buyers actively prefer, this episode gives you the roadmap.
What You’ll Learn:
• Why distrust is the default emotional starting point for modern B2B buyers
• The three deficits—information, interest, and power—that quietly derail decisions
• How to close these deficits and reach Trust Equilibrium, and then create your Trust Advantage
• Why culture and processes act as the fulcrum of trust-building
• What separates trusted companies from true trust-based market leaders
• How organizations can progress from transparency to authority, advocacy to influence, and fairness to leadership
Transcript
Welcome to another episode of Lead with Trust, the podcast where we have transformative
conversations with business leaders, marketing professionals, and sales managers to help
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:build trust intentionally and systematically.
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:In today's episode, I am going to introduce you to a core concept of the whole trust
leader methodology.
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:one that really introduces the TrustLeader Framework in my book Lead with Trust.
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:And that is the Trust Seesaw.
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:The Trust Seesaw is a fundamental concept that helps you understand how we experience
distrust as vendors and what factors are contributing for our buyers to feel that
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:skepticism and distrust.
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:and then what we can do to not only balance the seesaw out but tip it into what we call
the trust advantage in the TrustLeader Framework.
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:Now, I'm going to walk you through the whole concept front to back and by the end of this
episode you will understand what you can do today and in the next months and years to
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:systematically and intentionally build trust.
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:on a conceptual level that really frames what we're going to be doing with the TrustLeader
Framework.
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:But don't worry if you don't know what the TrustLeader Framework is, you can apply what
you learned today in a very practical way because what it does, it helps you shift your
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:mindset to why this is important and it gives you guidelines as to uh
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:Judge which actions are going to be good in building trust and which are probably going to
be a waste of time resources and effort So stick with me.
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:It's going to be a really helpful episode.
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:Now the core idea here is that our buyer has to feel trust in order to exchange their hard
earned money for our products and services, right?
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:That's the everything in business ultimately comes down to that one single emotion.
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:And without that, they're probably not going to go and buy from you.
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:In fact, a recent Forrester’s study has shown that about 70 %
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:of B2B purchases are made defensive, meaning the buyer picked the safest choice, the one
they trusted most.
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:Even though that meant sometimes the product fit wasn't 100%, but they felt better with
that one that they trusted most and they went for that rather than the one they didn't
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:trust as much, but maybe it was a better product fit.
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:So let's keep that in mind.
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:Now,
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:If we're talking about trust in the TrustLeader Framework sense, I'm talking about the
trust that your buyer needs to feel in order to buy from you.
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:And what needs to happen for them is they need to have that willingness to be vulnerable.
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:And that needs to be big enough that it outweighs or equals their perception of the risk
they're taking.
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:So that's the working definition of trust.
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:We as a company can do a lot to lower their perceived risk.
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:Absolutely, that's the main area we're going to be working in.
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:But proactively, we can also help them feel
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:more willing to be vulnerable by actions that we take.
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:And I'm going to get into what that actually means in a second.
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:But before I go there, I just want to mention that the one goal that we're going towards
is what we call unshakable trust.
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:Now, that sounds like a grand idea, but what that means is when you are building
unshakable trust, you are in a market
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:space or position where your customers are giving you the benefit of a doubt if something
happens.
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:know everyone screws up once in a while and they know that you didn't you did everything
possible to eliminate that risk because they trust you they know how reliable you are they
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:know how competent you are they know you have integrity
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:and that you truly care about them as buyers or as customers.
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:So they give you the benefit of the doubt.
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:They're willing to pay a premium for working with you and they're willing to meet certain
conditions in order to work with you because they feel that you are so competent,
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:reliable, all the other things that contribute to being trusted.
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:So you are in this,
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:a leading position in your market.
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:You're the expert that everyone goes to.
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:Your competition even admires you.
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:Your stakeholders really trust you.
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:It's a really good place to be because you get to lead your market.
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:You get to write the rules that everyone else has to follow.
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:I just want to mention that that's our due north.
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:That is what we're trying to aim for.
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:And that's the ultimate trust advantage that when the seesaw tips, that's what we're
working towards.
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:So keep that in mind as we're talking about that.
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:Now, the opposite of that is what most of our buyers currently feel when they encounter a
new or maybe even known brand in the market, but they don't trust them.
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:They have skepticism.
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:They feel there is a really big disconnect.
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:they're being taken advantage of and so on and they just don't trust from the get-go.
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:Alright, so that's the core idea.
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:Let's dive into this deeper and let's start by exploring why our buyers feel distrust by
default.
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:Let's start there and then work our way towards unshakable trust.
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:Alright, our buyers feel
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:this distrust because they face three different obstacles or three different walls that
they have to overcome.
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:The first is really to have this overload of information.
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:They have ads constantly bombarding them from every single channel.
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:You you go on Facebook, you get ads, you
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:open your mailbox, you have flyers, I mean there's ads every single place we go and turn
to.
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:But then you have also targeted tracking, so ads follow you around and based on your
behavior they're more targeted towards you.
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:You have a lot of misinformation out there.
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:You're trying to solve a problem and you might watch a YouTube video or read an how-to
article
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:and it's just full of misinformation.
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:It's really hard if you're new to a topic or new to a situation to understand what is
right advice and credible advice that you can trust and what is just made up,
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:intentionally faked.
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:There's so much misinformation out there.
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:And then,
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:AI doesn't help with giving us the ability to create deep fakes that look so believable
that when my teenagers now see any video they're like, that's AI, that's AI.
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:It's almost like the assumption it's fake.
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:While there is so much information overload, we as buyers also have an information
deficit.
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:Now that sounds a bit counterintuitive at first, but if you think about it, let's say you
want to buy something that you've never researched before, you've never looked into, and
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:you have no prior experience.
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:I remember a situation when I tried to buy a little solar power station.
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:not sure what it's exactly called, essentially you have a battery pack, have a little
generator, and you have multiple solar panels that you are able to either temporarily
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:install or just unfold on the ground for our piece of land that we have.
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:Now, I've never researched in depth that kind of temporary solution, and I was way over my
head.
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:Now I called the company because their website was somewhat detailed in terms of technical
specs but I was overwhelmed as a new buyer because I had no idea what would be the best
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:for me.
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:Like how many watts do I need every day, etc.
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:What ended up happening is I didn't buy because the sales guy was so gatekeeping.
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:and not really willing to share other information that was already on the website, which
doesn't really help.
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:So there was an information deficit wall that I couldn't overcome because I couldn't
confidently make the decision which solution would be the best.
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:And because that person was gatekeeping the information, there was no chance for me to
overcome that.
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:And it's a bit odd because
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:As a buyer, always feel that salesperson should have all the information to help me make
my decision to pick the one that's best for me confidently and unbiased.
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:They have all the information.
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:They know how much it costs.
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:know they should be able to ask me a few questions to identify which solution is best for
me and help me move forward confidently.
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:They didn't do that.
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:So.
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:there was this information deficit and because of that I didn't buy.
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:Now the second thing that we as buyers often encounter is we always feel like there's
ulterior motives when we are dealing with vendors.
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:we have the feeling that a company always wants to sell us
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:something maybe a bit more than we need or a different solution that they might get a
bonus for if they sell it right now or they're striving a certain campaign or maybe
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:they're just trying to pitch us this old product to make room for the new product.
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:There's so many ways that we as buyers have experienced in the past and are afraid of
ulterior motives of the company.
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:Now that's the second wall or deficit that we need to overcome as buyers in order to feel
turn out distrust into trust.
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:Right.
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:And that is the interest deficit Now the interest deficit is happens when the buyer
assumes that the goals of the company don't align with my goals and I suspect that they
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:have
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:more self-interest than interest in helping me and having my interests at heart.
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:That leads to skepticism and disengagement.
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:When you have that sort of interest deficit, it's really hard to sell in the first place,
but even harder than to upsell or retain that customer.
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:So far we've explored the information deficit and the interest deficit.
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:The third wall that we as buyers need to overcome is that we really feel powerless
sometimes.
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:Despite all the information that we now have access to,
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:we a lot of times still feel the vendor is in control of the pricing.
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:They are in control of the terms and policies that this contract is made of.
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:And they really get to have much more power in this relationship.
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:I just get to hand over my money and hope for the best.
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:So that is a power deficit.
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:Now because of that power deficit, this is where a lot of times deals are stalling and
they're stalling because the person is scared.
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:Right?
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:You experience that sometimes that you have a sales process and the prospect comes in and
you're excited.
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:You give them maybe a demo or they have a conversation with you and all of a sudden they
ghost you.
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:They shut down and they don't respond.
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:The deal just stalls and you are left wondering.
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:what just happened.
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:And a lot of times the reason for that happening is because the prospect discovered
something or wasn't able to overcome that fear that they had in their mind.
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:And a lot of times the reason for them not overcoming that fear is that power deficit.
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:So when that happens to you or if that happens to you, go back and check, did we create a
power balance?
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:Did we allow them
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:to have a say in the terms and conditions that they are willing to make a contract with
us?
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:Have we presented them with three acceptable pricing tiers that allow them to gain control
over what...
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:what they wanted to choose and that fits correctly in their budget.
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:Now obviously the power deficit happens after the information and the interest deficit so
all of those other things have to align as well for this to sort of balance out and tip
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:into the power advantage.
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:But I just want to really be clear here that procurement scrutiny, stall deals, all of
this has a lot of times to do
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:with distrust because of the power deficit.
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:Now, how does the seesaw fit into all of this?
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:What I want you to imagine is, let's imagine this journey of feeling distrustful all the
way to having a trust advantage in a seesaw situation.
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:So in the beginning,
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:What we have is we have the seesaw tip to one side and you have heavy, heavy sandbags
pushing and clamping that seesaw down on that one side.
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:And those bags are your information deficit, your interest deficit and your power deficit.
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:And without eliminating those and taking them off the seesaw or at least balancing them
out, you will not be able to
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:get trust.
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:So if you've ever been on a seesaw as a child, then you know that you have to put a
counterweight on the other side in order to balance them out correctly.
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:Now what are we going to put as a balance to balance this out?
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:So we have to add some weight on the other side.
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:Now, in order to balance them out, we're going to first tackle the information deficit.
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:The information deficit can be eliminated by educating your customer.
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:Surprise!
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:If you are willing to answer all of those burning questions that they have.
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:If you are willing to give them all the information that they need to confidently make a
decision.
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:If you are...
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:identifying clearly what are the decision points that, and my coaching clients are
probably sick and tired of me saying those words, but if you're helping them identify what
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:are the decision points that you have to make, and then helping them to actually
confidently make that decision in a unbiased way, in a completely transparent, honest way,
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:and you're providing them with all the information you're not holding back.
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:You're being very transparent about any bias you might have, any potential problems, what
is the pricing, you are getting it all out there.
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:A very good principle of how to do that in practice is by implementing the ask you answers
or endless customers, big five articles.
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:And there could be, well, big five, there could be articles and there could be videos.
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:But that is one of the best approaches that I found.
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:how you can overcome that information deficit and turn it into...
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:customer education and that will really eliminate your information deficit.
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:Now the second one was interest deficit and we're going to eliminate that or at least
balance it out by becoming advocates for our customers.
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:So if we truly step into the shoes of our buyers and prospects and customers and we truly
understand what are their needs, worries, fears, concerns,
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:then we empathize with them.
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:We walk a mile in their shoes and we truly understand what keeps them up at night.
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:What are the potential problems they have as a nagging thought that might hold them back?
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:What is the pricing conditions that they whatever it is we are going to advocate for them.
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:we're going to show them not just for education but through actively trying to have
empathy, show respect and benevolence in various ways we're going to help close that
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:interest deficit.
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:That sort of creates a balance.
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:Now third was the power deficit and the way we close that power deficit is by
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:Creating an honest partnership with our customers, a long term partnership.
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:We do that by empowering them.
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:We help them understand what our values are and a lot of times they will align when they
clearly understand what our corporate values are and see them living in action.
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:They will align with those values because they share the same values with us.
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:closes a really strong bond.
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:And then we're also going to ethically disrupt the market.
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:We're going to offer them a say in the pricing.
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:Maybe we offer value-based pricing.
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:Maybe we offer them a way to toggle between how much are they willing to pay.
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:Maybe we're allowing them in a very simple way on the very minimum base level to
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:cancel their contract without having to jump through five hoops or maybe they're having
certain conditions in the contract that they can switch on and off.
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:Of course not in a way that is detrimental to you but they get some control as to what
they would like to have in there and whatnot and your job is to give them acceptable
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:choices that are fair to both sides.
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:Alright, so that allows us if we're overcoming the information interest and power deficit
and we're eliminating them and bringing everything in balance through customer education,
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:customer advocacy and customer partnership, we are bringing everything into equilibrium.
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:Meaning our seesaw is completely balanced.
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:Now our buyers feel understood, they feel informed and empowered.
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:and trust feels more tangible because both sides are on equal ground.
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:And the result of that is beautiful, right?
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:The result of that is already lead generation becomes easier, sales cycles shorten, deals
close faster, everything just feels like it flows much easier because you're meeting your
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:customer at an equal one-to-one level.
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:You are
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:becoming this true partner that they can trust and you meet them at a level that they
expect you to be honest to operate and most companies don't do that.
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:90 % of the companies that I've worked with and looked at and talked to over the last 25
years are still operating somewhere between trust and this equilibrium, but most companies
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:have not reached on all levels that equilibrium.
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:have not closed the information interest and power deficit.
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:And once you do, every company has that potential, or they're something really wrong and
they shouldn't be in business, to at least reach that equilibrium.
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:Okay?
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:So I would say the first goal that you should have is
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:reach that point in the trust building journey.
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:Okay, trust is still fragile, but there's trust, you're actively, systematically and
intentionally building trust and you're meeting your customer where they expect you to
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:operate.
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:That's huge.
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:Now, you kind of maybe get the feeling that there's a but.
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:Because there is.
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:Because there is a second level, an advanced level of trust building where you can
actually now take that trust seesaw and you can tip it.
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:And once you tip it and you add those additional weights and you clamp it down on the
trust advantage side, that's where that unstoppable trust that I initially was talking
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:about, that's where the magic happens.
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:And that is where
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:Granted, only 10 to 15 % of companies will ever reach that level, but not everyone is made
out to be a leader and to be, there has to be a lot of followers.
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:And I don't want you to get discouraged by me saying that only 10 to 15 % can reach that
because if you make it to the equilibrium, you're still better than 90 % of the companies
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:right now and you are going to have massive rewards for that.
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:So shoot for that middle ground, get really stable in that, and then start chipping away
at all the other things where you then get to move towards a trust advantage and that
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:unstoppable trust.
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:Okay, so how does that look like?
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:Now, if you, let's go back to our deficits, right?
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:So the first one was the information deficit.
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:Now, obviously in order to,
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:move that seesaw you would have to take information leadership in your market.
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:That means you are the go-to expert in your market for your niche.
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:You are the best teacher out there.
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:You are presenting information in the best consumable way.
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:You're being recognized by AI recommendations as the trusted leader.
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:in your space in terms of information.
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:So your information is up to date, it's presented in an easy, consumable way by humans, by
AIs, by search engines.
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:It is maybe presented in a way that you have pricing calculators, product configurators,
you have self-service tools that allow people to come in and very quickly consume that
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:information.
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:maybe have video courses or some other out of the box way that makes it better than anyone
else and on a consistent scale that you are the expert in your field and you're being
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:perceived by everyone as such.
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:Now the second part was the interest deficit.
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:Now this is a bit more difficult because here you need to be perceived as the leader in
preserving and advocating for and improving the position that your buyer or prospect or
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:customer is in in terms of interest.
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:So interest deficit was
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:you or your buyer suspects that you have ulterior motives.
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:Now it's the opposite.
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:They know for a fact that you are advocating for them.
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:You're making their, you're tackling, for example, outdated practices and you are calling
people out on BS.
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:So there's a whole bunch of
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:ethical leadership that goes into this to align not only with your customers interest but
to really take action on it to make a difference and Show them that you have the best
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:interest at heart Sometimes to the point where you care more about their interest then
they do Right a good example of that is for example Joe Salatin's farm poly face where he
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:is so
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:invested in producing the most nutritious meat you could possibly have and he does every
single thing for that.
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:Moves his chicken tractors every day so they have new grass, they don't sit in their own
feces, they get sunshine.
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:I mean he even angles the chicken coops for the flow of wind going through for the
sunshine.
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:He has exact number of birds so they don't overcrowd and they live in their natural
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:It's just fantastic and he cares so deeply about the nutrition's value of that chicken and
of course of the welfare of the birds because if you have a bird that is being treated
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:well and lives the most happiest life until the last 10 seconds of their life, then they
will produce the most unbelievable meat and that is the most healthiest meat for you.
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:Now, most customers don't even know
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:any of these things in terms of, they don't care as much, they just want the healthy
chicken, not taste good.
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:And you can taste the difference.
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:So if you have that in mind, that's your trust advantage because people then, as you
educate them about having their best interests at heart.
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:So he talks about the micro and macro nutrients.
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:He talks about, gives farm tours all the time.
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:Now people start to care and they see you
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:as that leader having their best interests at heart.
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:Massive trust advantage.
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:Now, the last but not least, we have to overcome that power deficit that we sort of got
into a balance with with customer partnerships.
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:Now what we want to do is we want to really take that to the next level.
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:And that is probably the most difficult thing to do because you are completely disrupting
the market by
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:taking ethical leadership.
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:You are getting rid of old, outdated, unfair business practices that maybe put your buyer
or customer at a disadvantage.
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:And you're replacing them with fair win-win scenarios.
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:Taking into account that you're probably going to make a lot of people upset, partners,
competitors, other stakeholders, but you're doing this for
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:uh giving your customer not only a better product and a better service, but really
empowering them with your market leadership.
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:All right, so now, once we overcome that balance and we tip the seesaw into the trust
advantage by becoming that market authority, by becoming that market influencer and that
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:market leader, we now tip the seesaw and firmly position it into the trust advantage.
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:Now, once it's there, as I said before, we have this unshakable trust.
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:Buyers are going to be willing to pay a premium.
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:They will seek you out and want to work with you over anyone else.
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:You get to write the rules, others have to follow.
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:There's so many advantages to that.
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:I mentioned it before, so I'm not going to go into them.
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:in deep or in deeper here, but this is where really the magic happens.
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:And it is worth if you have that drive and ambition to make difficult choices to if that
gets you excited, I really encourage you to check out how you can reach that unstoppable
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:trust by taking the trust leader model through the
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:the second maturity job, So if you implement the trust leader model, what happens is you
go through three phases, and I'm going to cover the actual TrustLeader model in the next
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:video, but you go and you build foundational trust by communicating your competence, your
reliability, and your integrity effectively and actively.
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:so that you build that first fact-based cognitive trust.
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:Then you build relationship-based trust by deepening that trust you just built by behaving
empathetically, respectfully, and with benevolence.
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:You see that's the interest deficit we're overcoming.
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:And then you move into the last phase, which is where you behave with
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:or according to your shared values, you are empowering your customer and you ethically
disrupt.
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:And that's that last segment, that power deficit that you're overcoming.
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:So once you go through that whole framework the first time, this is how you move from
distrust all the way to that equilibrium where your customers are expecting you to live
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:anyway.
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:Massive payoff here.
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:I mentioned that before, but if you want to run through it a second time on a more
advanced level, that's where you then reach the advanced trust and the trust advantage and
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:that unstoppable trust.
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:I will dive into the actual TrustLeader Framework in depth in the next video, so don't
worry about this if it doesn't make sense just yet.
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:But what I want you to keep taking away from this today is
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:that you have that trust leader seesaw, you go from distrust by overcoming information,
interest, and power deficit, and then you bring it into equilibrium by establishing a
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:customer education, customer advocacy, and customer partnership.
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:So essentially you,
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:operate on the level of trust building that your customers are currently expecting you at
and then you become that leader by tipping it into the trust advantage and that's where
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:you really have that market authority, that market influencer status and trust-based
market leadership.
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:All right, there's one more thing that I want to mention because that's really important
to understand here.
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:This seesaw sits on a little fulcrum.
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:Imagine this to be a perfect triangle.
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:And that fulcrum has processes and culture.
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:If you ever played with a teeter totter or a seesaw, like as a board and you played around
as a kid, imagine you put it on Play-Doh, something soft.
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:You've made this perfect triangle, but then you put the board on, you put weights on, it
will slump and it'll basically get stuck and you won't be able to balance it at all.
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:And you won't, certainly won't be able to tip it onto the trust advantage.
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:Now I want you to keep that mental picture in your head because it's very important that
your culture and your processes are supporting what you're trying to do with this trust
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:builder journey.
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:Right?
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:So if they are not solid or they're placed not perfectly in the middle of that board, so
they're not aligned with that whole trust leading, you will not be successful in this.
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:So it is absolutely crucial that you build a culture and the right processes to support
you in this journey.
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:We will explore again in the next few videos of how exactly to do that as we go through
each of those layers in the trust leader journey.
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:I will mention to you those processes and the cultural considerations that you need to
keep in mind.
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:But I just want you to plant that seed today that you need to have that perfect triangle
there with the culture and process in order to be able to first balance, overcome the
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:trust.
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:balance it and then tip into the trust advantage.
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:I hope you found that useful as a concept and I hope this gets you excited to learn more
about the TrustLeader Framework in the future.
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:And I'm really grateful that you're here.
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:I'm really grateful that you're a part of this journey and listening to me ramble on about
the TrustLeader Framework and something that truly I'm excited about.
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:If you found this helpful, please.
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:subscribe and like the video below.
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:Bye bye.
